To briefly respond, Devin, I do not have quite the articulation nor
study opportunities and wisdom of others; however, I do know good points
when I see them. The one thing that struck me without delving into
scripture is the fact that when one does lust after a REAL woman or man, he
or she is still using their immagination to do so. This is because in
reality, that person is not actually committing adultery with the other
person; they are imagining it. So, Jesus did speak against the actual
action but instead the dwelling upon an action not yet committed. The
action was already addressed in the Ten Commandments and several other
places. Also, I believe after that specific passage he goes on to say
something about if your eye causes you to LUST then gouge it out even
if it is your good eye and so on. So, one must understand that even
lust after a figment of their immagination is still lust. Just because
the object about which you lust is not physically real it does not mean
that lusting is wrong especially in coordination with the next passages.
I may imagine killing someone all the time with a knife that doesn't
exist in the real world but that still would be deemed unhealthy by any
sane person. Or how about the Army, FBI, CIA, and other organizations?
Don't they use virtual reality weapons training in order to train their
men and soldiers even though the targets and weapons do not exist in
real life? If the process of thoughts, especially prolonged exposure to
the same thoughts, did not translate into altered action as a result,
the armed forces would cease using this training. I'm sure many other
arguments exist but that is all I have for now. Love you and have a
great week.

Christopher Rose

 

>We know that pornography is wrong- being pictures or videos that cause us to lust after men or women that we >are not in a biblical relationship with. … what if I make up a woman/man (if you are a woman) and think >lustfully upon my imagination?



You answer your own question with your opening sentence of the paragraph. The issue is not the circumstances of the object of lust, because lust is not about the ‘object’ of lust. The issue is the consequence of lust within the person doing the lusting. To think about (or act out) sexual _expression with a person with whom a person is not in a “biblical relationship” is what is proscribed in scripture. The problem with lust is that is harms a person’s relationship with God and with their “biblically related” partner. If I am “imagining” my wife with a different body shape or her behaving sexually with more enthusiasm / less inhibition / whatever, I am definitely not celebrating the life God has given her and consequently the mate he has given me. When Solomon says “take joy in the wife of your youth”, I don’t think he means imagine your wife as sexier and hornier. But I could be wrong - I’m a novice at exegesis. Whether the object of lust is real or imagined – the consequence is the same and that is why lust is condemned.



I wonder if you have correctly stated that “the average sexual experience takes place between twelve and thirteen”. (My average sexual experience takes place between eleven-thirty and twelve!!!) Seriously now, what do you mean by that? Do you mean that, on average, the first sexual experience occurs between the age of 12 and 13? I challenge that. That would require there are very many “first sexual experiences” occurring well before that age to “average out” the number of first sexual experiences that occur after the age of 12/13. Think about it. Secondly, what does the term “sexual experience” mean? Intercourse, heavy petting, oral sex, first base, second base, etc.? That is an important clarification.



Years ago, I did a study on the subject and found that the average age of marriage was 27 for men and 24.5 for women. At the same time, another study indicated that adolescents initiate sexually intercourse, on average, eight years before marriage. That suggests that the average age of first sexual intercourse was approximately 16 to 18. A more recent study (http://www.fhi.org/training/en/modules/ADOL/s1pg15.htm) indicates that the stats have remained steady. A cursory search of “age of first sexual experience” puts the age around 14.



Whatever the stats, here’s the outcome: Modern culture has inverted the progression of marriage leading to intercourse and stretched out the schedule until now intercourse precedes marriage by 8 to 10 years rather than the marriage ceremony preceding intercourse by mere hours (oh thank heaven!). That really goofs up a society… as we have seen.



I this point I observe that rather than intercourse being a rite of passage (into marriage) it has become a right of passage (into the teen years).



You wrap up you thoughts with this claim, “So we can see that this issue of lust is not quite as clear cut as we would sometimes make it to be.”



I’m not sure about that. In fact, our role as pastors / mentors is to see that the biblical wisdom on the matter is painfully(!) clear, completely unambiguous, and completely unchanged by the ebb and flow and current events. If we feel that the job is made more difficult by predominating cultural influences, we are deluding ourselves. Sexual tension has always been drawn as tight as a violin’s g-string (pardon the pun). There has never been a time in history when hormone-charged adolescents didn’t do the math and reckon their chances of getting laid and reckon the consequences of same.



I think the only thing that has changed is our will to stand firm against the culture. Every generation has felt that they are seeing greater challenge to biblical morality. Sexual energies have not changed and neither must our message.

As we have discussed before, I don’t like the approach of setting boundaries and trying to get kids to “wait”. I’m an idealist and I usually invent impractical approaches to problems, but I think our job is to challenge kids to a life of honoring God. This includes celebrating sexual desire and keeping it in a context that doesn’t force us to do the math of whether it is worth it to cross the line. You only have to tell people to “stop” when they are going in the wrong direction. I’d rather send kids in the right direction and help them manage their speed.



But I could be all wrong about this. That why I have to get by on my looks, not my brains.



Keep up the good work, young Devin.

Clark H Smith

 

I was having a conversation with a co-worker who happens to be of the same denomination (Nazarene) about the issue of homosexuality. He mentioned that a part of the problem is that we do not have a clear cut 'theology of sexuality,’ at least from our religious tradition. We know what we think is wrong (for the most part) but do we define what is right and why? We need to address the purpose, the reason God has given us the gift of sexuality, beyond our usual simple answers. This would help with questions of lust as well. Like you have addressed, we leave too much room in the question of human sexuality. We leave the questions too much room for definition by circumstance instead of looking at the circumstances through a definitive theology regarding the concept of human sexuality.

-Ross Norris

 

Thanks for stopping by my blog. Interesting post.

Aside from the filth and perversion of Hollywood and cable television infecting our teens with lustful thoughts, the problem is much greater than that.

In my opinion, one of the MAJOR problems to teens having sex is the public school system where peer pressure is fierce and condoms are handed out like candy. When teens are separated from their parents all day long and placed in an institution where God is irrelevant, "safe-sex" courses are mandatory and there are no moral absolutes – what do you expect them to do?

Another MAJOR contributor to young people having sex is divorce. When kids, especially girls grow up without a father in the home, having sex has nothing to do with hormones, but rather a desperate need for love and attention.

I am married with three kids now, but I started having sex when I was thirteen along with the rest of my peers, and I know all too well the reality inside a broken home and the government schools which so many teens are subjected to today. I can say for certain that everything bad, corrupt or immoral, I learned, I learned in public school. And I'll be darned if my precious children will have to experience the same.

While youth pastors are important, I think the primary factor is with the parents and their obedience to God. If parents raise their children in the fear and admonition of the Lord, and if they diligently teach and train them in the ways of the Lord as they are commanded to do in Deuteronomy 6:4-7, we would not be having a sex epidemic with our teens.

We homeschool our three of our girls, and we raise them with the standards that sex is to be saved for marriage. Anything outside of marriage is not an option because not only is it a sin and displeasing to God, but it is dirty, perverted, dangerous and unfulfilling. This may seem extreme, but in order to avoid this problem, we plan on also raising our girls with the expectation that we will be selecting their husbands for them. This way, when they come of age, they will joyously look forward to their wedding day knowing marriage is something they have been waiting for their whole lives and it’s something to be celebrated.

In closing, God specifically addresses this issue of “burning with lust” in 1 Corinthians chapter 7. The Apostle Paul writes, “Because of sexual immorality, let each man have his own wife, and let each woman have her own husband… but if they cannot exercise self-control, let them marry. For it is better to marry than to burn with passion.”

Sincerely,
Dani

P.S. I think you’ve done a great job so far from what I’ve read. I also added you to my blogroll. (hope that's ok?)

 

While reading your post a thought came to my mind. When you are lusting after someone, you are putting them in a situation that they are not actually in. I could lust after a good Christian girl and put her in a situation that she's never been in inside my head. At that point the person in my mind may look like said girl, but they aren't the same person, since the Christian girl would never act like that. But I could also lust after a very loose girl, but still, in lusting I'm imagining a situation that's never happened. So the real person and the person in my mind aren't the same person. So when you lust you are creating a false person in your mind every time. So even if you create someone in your mind, it's still lust.

God bless.